A Tale of Two Tai Chi’s
Well not exactly a tale, more of a discussion really. I recently received an interesting email from a reader, Joyce Phillips. Joyce not only asked me a good question, she also gave me a good topic to blog about. The question asked was, “… what is your opinion of having different [tai chi] instructors at the same time?”
I’ve touched on this topic before, although not in quite this way. As is often the case, I am of two minds about studying with different teachers, or studying different styles. I don’t believe there is a clear-cut answer to this question.
Mixing styles can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing, depending on what you hope to attain. If you’re practicing tai chi for the pure enjoyment of it, and aren’t overly confused by the subtleties of mixing styles, then there’s no harm in mixing them. In fact it may make studying tai chi even more interesting.
When a student has no interest in the martial applications, or even learning how their body reacts under different conditions, studying the movement alone can become a bit tedious over time. When this type of student is exposed to different teachers, or different styles, they have to focus harder on which style they’re doing at the moment and their level of interest is peaked.
On the other side of the argument is the student who is studying to go as deeply into tai chi as they can. Usually this means studying with martial intent and focus, but it can also mean someone wanting to learn how their body functions while doing tai chi and delving deeply into this area. For this student, mixing styles will usually hold them back since they will constantly be thinking thoughts such as, “What style am I doing now, and how do I hold my hand in this posture?”
The student who hopes to gain some level of mastery of tai chi chuan is better served studying one style from one competent teacher. Learning the subtleties of tai chi movements and learning to control the body’s energy is a very deep well. So deep in fact it may be more accurate to call it a bottomless well. As tai chi teachers go, I’m still a relative newbie. After I’ve been at this for another 10 to 15 years I might have a better handle on it than I do now, after only 8 years. Master Cui Zhongsan, my master, has been studying and practicing tai chi chuan for 57 years. He still says he wishes he’d listened to his Grandfather and master, Cui Yishi, more intently.
There is also one other side to this. It’s the student who has been studying for some time and feels they have a good grasp of their style of tai chi. This student may in fact benefit from studying one other style and seeing where it takes them. My Master, having grown up with many other masters around his home, studied different styles of tai chi, kung fu, etc. It seems now there is almost nothing he can’t do or pick up very quickly.
In closing, the answer to this question depends completely on the student. Once you’ve figured out what you want to get out of your tai chi practice, you’ll know which way to go. Your thoughts?
John
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Dec 15, 2009 - 03:12:37For me, initially it was due to practicality. I get what teachers I can get. Now, it’s still due to practicality PLUS simplicity. It’s tough enough following one teacher, and my current teacher teaches a lot of different styles…
Shang Lee,
I feel for you. It can sometimes be hard to find a good teacher. My master, while not teaching us different styles, often gives us warm-ups that are taken from forms or move of different styles. The moves are sometimes different enough that they take time to learn. It keeps things fun and interesting.
John
Yeah. I see mine once a year. So this is what I pressure myself (and my students) to do…
I go for lots of corrections and try to make them on the spot. It really messes up my mind… I get crushing ego blows. And the more I can take, it seems, the more I get.
And a minor adjustment in, say, Grasp Swallow’s Tail, is tough to keep adjusting throughout a long form…but that’s my vision. Plus, once my mind gets really overwhelmed, the movements and the corrections get easier and easier.
I don’t use multi-teachers, but I wonder if a quick change vision could help with that?
Steven,
It seems everyone has their way of doing things. My Master, while a stickler for the details, tell us to note the corrections that need to happen while doing a form and then incorporate them into the next repetition. He wants our forms to flow as smoothly as possible without correcting ourselves in the middle of doing something.
I still do correct myself in the middle of a specific move or form if my intention is to work on the smaller details and too see what feels most effective. However, if I’m playing a full form set, I just keep going. We also to a lot of moving jiben where we run the same form over and over so the corrections can be applied right away.
You got my curiosity up on the quick change vision. What is it?
John
I certainly enjoyed reading your take on training under different teachers. This has long been disputed not only in Tai Ji but I suppose in all martial arts. For a newby in Tai Ji,, its a delicate problem,, should i train under one teacher or two,,maybe 3??? and the Tai Ji I am learning from one teacher?/ Is his Kung fu good?? (as they say in the movies)..is he a good Tai Ji teacher,, what does a newby have to compare with??? Maybe after several years in the art,, if he has seen others he/she can decide.
I think sometimes in the arts,, we as teachers tend to be a little conservative about this,, we tell our students,, that you must stay with one teacher to master your art,, better to be a master of one than a jack of all trades,,and know a little bit about a lot of stuff, but do we tell our students that,, because we dont want to lose them to others??? Hmmm?? I wonder.
As I grow older and look back,, my Sensei’s in Karate would frown upon me training with others, was it because I should stick with them and master my art?? or as I mentioned,, they did not want to lose that income???
Now that I am older, and go back to my old teachers in the Far East,, they even find other teachers for me to train with,, and we have get togethers,, training and social , that are always informative and it is always a learning situation.. I think I suppose with age , one can sort of sift through what one needs.
Ahh then there is Tai Ji Quan.. On my last trip to China,, I trained with 4 different teachers,, all of Yang Style,, but even with Yang,, they all had their subtle little differences,, which i very much enjoyed learning about,, and why they did the things they did. I only wish that I had the means to train under 4 different teachers here in the states,, golleee ,, how nice that would be. Especially if they were quality Sifu…
But, i think this is important also,, if one has a Tai Ji Sifu and has associated himself with that person,, they should continue to train with that particular sifu,, even though he/she may go and train with others. He/she can return to their Sifu and discuss the little differences tween what is taught,, and maybe why is it taught that way,, A Good Sifu will always be willing to accept and discuss in an open manner what others are teaching and advise his desicple/student on the best course of action to take,, all with an open and accepting mind.
The more one sees of the differences in Tai Ji from Sifu , to system to geographical location,, the more one will learn and understand from Tai ji… even from those teachers who are not so well qualified to pass on Tai Ji,,there is something to learn..
Charles,
Thanks for such a well articulated and in-depth comment. It’s always good to hear from someone who is in the middle of it all. Regarding learning from teachers who are not so well qualified, I think you’re right that we can learn from everyone. Once we reach a certain point though, these teachers become less valuable to us. I find my students are pretty good teachers for me as well. When they aren’t getting it, I’m not teaching it… or I need to dig deeper for my own understanding.
John
Yes,, i certainly agree with you. Our students are very good teachers,, in teaching us how to teach :-).
“In closing, the answer to this question depends completely on the student. Once you’ve figured out what you want to get out of your tai chi practice, you’ll know which way to go.” This just about sums up everyting about tai chi, John.
I have worked with 2 tai chi instructors at the same time. The easy part is remembering the different forms. The hard part is to move differently for the instructors. It is something that is to difficult for a beginner to try. It leads to confision. It is better to pick a teacher and stay with it.
David
David,
You’re right; it depends completely on the student. When I first began studying tai chi I was also attending classes for Hapkido. I quickly learned it’s better to stay with one style until you feel very comfortable with it. I chose tai chi.
John
Why be a jack of all trades when you can be an expert? Diversification is good if it comes with dedication but most of the time it brings mediocre results.
Crece,
I like where you’re going with this, but sometimes it can be helpful to “diversify” once you’re on the right track to begin with.
John
Oh: the quick change idea. Is just a quick way to refer to what I wrote about: that I want to not-be-attached to the way I practice form… that way, when I get “corrections” or “new ideas about how to move”, I can apply it right now: BANG!
On learning: yes, we can learn from students, but it’s a whole other kind of learning and a different topic. We learn to communicate and articulate forms and motion better, but we don’t get form corrections or subtle changes (unless we realize and make those changes ourselves).
Steven,
Good point. Although we generally don’t get “form corrections” from our students unless we realize we’re doing something wrong, I also think that showing a student an application can lead to “correcting ourselves” when we find a subtle alteration in an application that is more effective. Maybe this is what you meant as well?
John
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